Closed-list PR means voters have little control over who is elected

While some say that party brass always choose the best candidates when they draw up the party list, there are many factors that influence the drawing up of the lists.

One might even say that gender parity is against attracting votes or it would not have to be mandatory (such as the zipper list where required)

 if women were seen as as vote-attracting candidates. - not that they aren't but they are not seen as such - mandatory gender parity would not have to forced if parties truly put people on list based on vote attraction.

in fact not having women candidates on a party list perhaps means some women voters stay home and them staying home means votes are not there to be shown as supportive of women cand,.,  it becomes a self-reinforcing negative feedback loop.

also senior statemen, on list because they know where the bodies are buried

 cabinet minsters are on list because government depends on them

 incumbent elected members are given top billing spots  on assumption that because they got votes in past, they will attract votes in future or just because of the power they wield.

meantime voter may or may not have moved on and left the opinions and expectation of the old party brass behind.

for one thing these established kingpins are usually of middle or senior age, 

thus youthful voters don't see their own on the party list usually. or at least not up high.

what party might see as best is not necessarily who voters think is best that is why we have elections.

there is trade-off between :

local representation, (at city level,. for example) 

party proportionality (GI), which is used to defend large DM districts (and then large DM are taken to dictate that list PR must be used)

gender parity, 

minority representation -- intra-party minorities that are popular with general membership or voters, including the Waffle circa 1970s, the young Turks, or whatever you want to call them. (intraparty minority that are not popular with member or voters are not due representation.)  (closed-list list PR is known to give party brass much power)

rate of effective votes (use of ranked votes may produce results with higher (worse) GI (if calculated based on first preferences) than if no transfers done)

 i think we all see that. the difference between our viewpoints on preferred electoral system is which of these people think is important.

meanwhile any system where each voter has one vote and multiple members are elected (or seats allocated) will give more fair results than we have now.

parties being able to pool their votes, or votes able to be transferred, or both will give more fair results than without them. as measured by GI and by rate of effective votes.

=========

districting can be same with any election system with only some outlier differences. - 

STV is used state-wide in NSW to elect NSW leg. council and NSW is about same or larger in pop than any Can prov. except maybe ON or QU

only 2 list PR countries are at-large country-wide

only 7 or 9 countries are MMP which i admit has country-wide component.

Algeria with its list PR has no district larger than 37. a DM that is to be done using STV this coming year I think

either STV and list PR can be used for prov-wide elections.in Canada

BC has 42 MPs this is same number of members on NSW Leg. council.

country-wide scale is not possible constitutionally in Canada, IMO.

===================

I want the most-popular candidates elected, not "the best"

sometimes different thing

but that  is just me.

reminds me of that that movie where the guy yells to his new friends

" i would rather spend my time in this town with you people than with the best people in the world."

===

"party's best" may be elected under closed list PR,

 but not necessarily the most-popular based on voter's sentiment if that sentiment is even allowed to be recorded and to be counted.

when all you can mark is support for party list, there is no way to know if in fact the most-popular individuals are elected.

=======================