Saskatoon used STV for city elections 1921-1926, 1939-1942 - City of Saskatoon Archives info shows C.J. Yorath was pivotal in its adoption

Following is information provided by the City of Saskatoon Archives about what materials they have on that city's use of PR, which was back in 1920s, 1930s and 1940s.

Timeline of use of PR in Saskatoon

June 1914 vote on disbanding the ward system. (Kerr and Hanson, Saskatoon the First Half-Century, p. 280)

Through the rest of 1910s, electoral reform was on the agenda.

The drive for PR was pursued by City commissioner Yorath and  Saskatoon Phoenix editorial writer J.T. Hull (and others mentioned below).

(John T. Hull on staff of Saskatoon Phoenix in 1910s. (Kerr and Hanson, Saskatoon the First Half-Century, p. 281)

(John T. Hull see Memorable Manitobans online)

(Hull author of radical publications -- see Montopedia blogs "Radical publications", 1929, 1930, 1937, 1939)

1916 Saskatoon City Commission C.J. Yorath spoke in favour of PR at the 11th Annual Convention of the Union of Saskatchewan Municipalities, held at Swift Current, June 28-30, 1916. His speech published as pamphlet under title "Civic Government".

(copy at COS Archives, 1069-1030-004)

Yorath wrote: "The principle that all governments should be subject to popular control is admitted by all democratic communities, but self-government can only be fully realized when every section of the community can give expression to its views through its own representative in the Council, which is supposed to be representative of the people. The present majority [plurality] systems of election either upon the Ward or Block Plan do not provide representation for the minority [other than the minority that takes the seats or seats].

... The majority system of election does not give proper representation, and a large section of the community representing the minority is virtually disenfranchised."

He noted the 1896 federal election produced the wrong winner; the 1911 federal election gave much larger majority of seats to the Conservatives than votes said; the 1911 BC provincial election gave no seats to the Liberals although proportionally they were due 12 seats.

The 1914 Saskatoon municipal election - of the 2382 votes cast in the aldermanic contests, only 1377 were used to elect the winners, 42 percent of the votes were not represented.

In the 1915 election, 39 percent of votes were not used to elect anyone.

He wrote: "The above is misrepresentation not representation of the people and should be a sufficient reason for amending the system of electing Aldermen or Councillors but the following are additional objections to the Ward System of election.

(a) Seats are often won by political trickery.

(b) A small minority of the voters in a municipality may control a majority of the Council.

(c) The personnel of the Council may be radically changed each year by a few voters, thus preventing a continuity of policy. [what is called policy lurch in 2025]

(d) The development of the City in the interests of the whole community is prejudiced by considerations of ward only.

(e) The unequal distribution of improvements often due to certain wards being more aggressive in municipal matters than others and the ward Councillor or Alderman representing his own ward and that alone.

[the Block voting system is brought in to address problems of ward politics but] "Under the block [voting] system of election, it is possible for one political party to control the whole Council or all the members of the Council to come from one section of the community.

It is impossible under the above systems to obtain proper representation of the people, and as this is one of the most essential requirements to obtain efficient

civic government, they should be abolished without further delay and a system adopted that will assure the election of a fully representative Council."

The system which is now recognized by all those who have studied the subject as the best for obtaining popular control by proper representation is that known as 'Proportional Representation', first advocated by Mr. Hare in 1857. Another name for it is the 'single transferable vote.'

1916 - C.J. Yorath, Saskatoon City commissioner, called for STV to be used in Saskatoon city elections. He cited the usage PR was getting in the wider world at that time:

"STV or some similar system of proportional representation has been adopted in Belgium, Sweden, South Africa, Tasmania, Switzerland and is likely to be adopted for Ireland. Proportional Representation was one of the chief political issues in France prior to the outbreak of war and a bill providing for its application to French politics has already passed the Chamber of Deputies."

The chief reason for electing Aldermen and Councillors by the Ward System is to distribute the representatives on the Council as equally as possible over the whole area of the municipality or if there are seven wards an Alderman or Councillor by obtaining

a bare majority represents a geographical seventh of the City. Under the "single transferable vote" system, the Aldermen would be elected at large but would represent one of the seventh largest groups of electors.

With the block voting election system, each elector could give one vote to each of the seven [successful] candidates, then the evil of that system would not be eliminated, therefore the necessity to limit the voting power of each elector to one vote.

The chief objections to the "single transferable vote" system of elections are—

(a) That it is too complicated for the average elector to understand ;

(b) That the counting of the votes is too elaborate and takes too long.

The best answer to these objections is to quote from practical experience:

TASMANIA, 1909 — Percentage of spoilt ballot papers due to all causes 2.86 percent

PRETORIA - 38 spoilt ballot papers out of a total of 2852 or 1.33 percent

FINLAND - With 95 candidates, only .59 per cent of the ballot papers were spoilt.

(The number of spoilt ballot papers in the last Municipal Elections, Saskatoon, Ward System, was 2.14. percent.)

...

It is strongly urged that the present system of electing Councils be revised so that:

(a) Aldermen or Councillors are elected upon the Proportional Representation Plan, thus obtaining better and more complete representation of all sections of the community.

(b) The size of the Council be reduced to seven members including the Mayor;

(c) The Mayor be chosen from the members elected as suggested in paragraphs (a) and (b), and that length of service on the Council be the primary factor in such choice.

He recommended separation of administrative and legislative functions, whereby

"the Council appoint only two Committees and their duties have been outlined, but so that the administration of the various civic departments can be supervised in detail and in order to obtain the best co-operative effort of these departments, it will be necessary for the Council to appoint an experienced city manager who will be responsible to it for the civic administration....

It is time that the unconscious civic motto of "Muddle on and muddle through" be eliminated from civic government. The keener competition and increased national taxation of the future as a result of the war will demand efficiency in civic development.

Efficiency with economy is the parrot cry of many candidates for Aldermanic honors. It is impossible to obtain the former without the latter and vice versa and it is also impossible to obtain efficiency without experience." (Yorath, Civic Government (1916))(copy at City of Saskatoon Archives, 1069-1030-004)

To explain STV, Yorath reprinted "A simple case of an Election by Proportional Representation or The Single Transferable Vote" (which he said was from John H. Humphreys' book on Proportional Representation).

1917 Yorath published info on unfair elections under FPTP and Block voting. see Kerr and Hanson, Saskatoon the First Half-Century, footnote 128.

[The same year that Civic Government came out, Calgary held a referendum on switching to STV - a majority voted in favour. And in 1917 Calgary became the first city in Canada to use PR.]

Saskatoon for one reason or another did not proceed toward PR until 1920.

appears Saskatoon had plebiscite on PR in 1920.

December 29, 1921 - bylaw for adoption of PR passed by city council

used PR for city election 1921-1926

(Saskatoon city information says the STV system used in Saskatoon is the same as the one being used in Calgary, so likely Gregory)

===

Statistics of 1920s PR elections

1921 highest poll in Saskatoon's history -- 4800 votes cast for aldermanic contests, only 300 spoilt. (City of Saskatoon Archives, 1069-1030-003)

1922 mayor re-elected by acclamation. perhaps that accounts for why voter turnout dropped to 3200. in aldermanic contest less than 200 votes spoilt.

1923 4400 voted. 204 spoilt in aldermanic contest.

1924 mayor re-elected by acclamation. perhaps that accounts for low voter turnout. 2400 voted. 68 spoilt in aldermanic contest.  

(City of Saskatoon Archives, 1069-1030-003)

===

plebiscite on ending PR in 1924 -- unsuccessful

plebiscite on ending PR in 1926 -- successful

December 1926 - bylaw rescinding PR passed [exact date not given]

plebiscite on return to PR in 1930 -- unsuccessful

Questionnaire on PR submitted Oct. 13, 1936 [nature of this questionnaire not known]

plebiscite on return to PR in 1936 -- said to be unsuccessful

but -

spokesmen of the Electoral Reform Group congratulated voters on the successful referendum and said they expected city council to abide by the vote result -

"We believe that it indicates that the electorate realizes at last that there is need for a change in our system of voting if we are to have on our public bodies representation in proportion to our various groups that go to make up our civic population."

ERG led by Donald Disbery, W.J. Smith, P.R. Kreutzweiser, Morley P. Toombs and Phil. H. Reynolds. (Star Phoenix 1936-11-24)

October 25, 1937 Special Committee on voting system to use in municipal elections formed to draft a bylaw and prepare for a referendum on PR for the voters in December 1938.

met with representatives of the PR League - W.J. Smith, Donald Disbery and P.R. Kreutzweiser.*

Committee found that the principles of STV were still the same as when Saskatoon had last used it, in 1926.

Saskatoon's old bylaw (no. 1279) and Calgary's municipal STV bylaw were used to make up a new bylaw.

(p. 7 section 2 a and b show that the Gregory form of STV was used - perhaps a whole-vote version of that even.)

1938 October -- W.J. Smith, who was part of the Trades and Labour Council, is quoted in the newspaper on Oct 1, 1938 reporting on discrepancies in the counting of ballots in the recent provincial election.

1938 plebiscite in favour of return - successful. Pro-PR voters had 1600-vote lead over anti-PR voters - 4302 to 2673

December 19, 1938 - bylaw reinstating PR passed.

STV used in city elections in 1939, 1940, 1941.

1941 April -- A newspaper article dated April 21, 1941, has W.J. Smith as Secretary of the P.R. Committee, giving a lecture.

1941 April Trades and Labour Council meeting -- PR defended against charges by J.M. Goldenberg, K.C. that PR gives representation to ethnic groups and thus divides the electorate. He claimed that is what allowed Germany to be in its present situation.and that its transfers are done by "pure chance".

Harry Mather, VP of the TLC, said Germany is in the situation not due to minority representation but due to suppression of minorities.

W.J. Smith said electors of Saskatoon have said "their council shall be representative of voting strength" and PR is best way to do this. And if chance is the issue, an amendment (change to a scientific method - the "exact method" is described) is needed, not repeal of PR, said W.J. Smith.  (Star Phoenix 1941-04-21)

1941 April - W.J. Smith defended PR in the pages of the Star Phoenix by quoting from Hallet's book PR the Key to Democracy.

Smith described how in the 1938 SK election more than half the votes cast in Saskatoon (under BV?) did not elect anyone.

Also cited the success of the New York City PR elections.

(Star Phoenix 1941-04-21)

1941 October -- various Saskatoon associations called for end to PR - West Side Business Men's Association; King George Ratepayers and Residents Association.

Saskatoon Trades and Labour Council defended use of PR.

council decided to hold referendum on rescission of PR on Nov. 24, 1941. (City of Saskatoon Archives, 1069-1030-002)

1941 plebiscite -- majority voted to end PR - majority had 116-vote lead over pro-PR voters. 2889 to 2773.

December 23, 1941 - bylaw rescinding PR passed. City returned to Block Voting city-wide [I think]

1942 Feb. 7 - Saskatoon city clerk responded to John Humphrey's request for info.

He explained that the local newspapers "did not come out emphatically" in favour of PR at the time of the Nov. 1941 vote, leaving it in the hands of voters.

"The Trades and Labour Council was very active in writing articles to the press urging voters to continue the system of PR."

He wrote that there was no very great demand for removal of PR, but a local lawyer [un-named - perhaps J.M. Goldenberg, K.C.] called for the end to PR as the idea of minority or ethnic representation went against the need during WWII for unity and a a sense of Canadian-ness.

(City of Saskatoon Archives, 1069-1030-001)

1946 October 26 --- J. Anderson, Saskatoon City Clerk, responded to inquiry from the Saskatchewan government:

There has been no call for another referendum since 1941.

Previously certain organizations were strongly in favour of PR while others were just as strongly opposed.

Some of the arguments advanced against PR were:

• that it gave each voter just one vote irrespective of how many seats were to be filled [that is its strength, not its weakness];

• that it is designed to give representation to certain factions and groups, thus tending to disunite instead of unite the people;

• that it causes too long a wait for the results to become known;

• that the system resulted in a unduly large percentage of rejected ballots. [not as many as the votes that do not elect any one under FPTP or Block Voting]

"The experience in Saskatoon has been the counting of the ballots was a tedious and expensive business, lasting three or four days, and in few, if any, cases was there a change from the results indicated in the first count of ballots. [That of course is grounds to switch to SNTV, not to FPTP or BV.]

"As civic candidate are elected to represent the citizens a whole, and not any particular section or class of the community, I personally cannot see any benefit derived from the use of PR in civic elections." [each elected councillor is elected by just a section of the voters]

 (City of Saskatoon Archives, 1069-1030-005)

=======================

Biographical info on Saskatoon proportionalists:

members of the Saskatoon PR League: W.J. Smith, Donald Disbery and P.R. Kreutzweiser.

Donald Disbery

Donald Disbery (1901-1981)

a lawyer and a judge, graduating from the UofS in 1925.

He was president of the Young Men’s Conservative Association in Saskatoon and was secretary of the Liberal-Conservative Association in 1934.

long-time Conservative, ran as Conservative candidate in 1953 federal election.

On the executive of the Proportional Representation League (also referred to as the Electoral Reform Group?)

died in 1981 while working as judge in NWT (Star Phoenix, 1981-07-27)

P.R. Kreutzweiser

Peter Russell Kreutzweiser (1903-1958)

Born in Elmwood, Ontario

came to Saskatoon in 1913.

a pressman for the Star Phoenix.

an active member of the Young Liberals in the 1920s (including serving as president) member of the Junior Board of Trade, organized in 1929, which was quite an active organization in Saskatoon.

1921-1923 member of Naval Volunteer Reserve.

He was involved with precursor plans to Medicare later in life, playing leading role in the Saskatoon Medical Mutual Hospital Society, which became the Medical Mutual Co-operative.

died in 1958, survived by wife and one son.

His brother, Lloyd, was a long-time city employee and was City Clerk 1955-1975. (Star Phoenix 1958-04-15)

W.J. Smith

Walter James (Bill) Smith (-1961), born in England,

came to Canada in 1909, moving to Saskatoon in 1912, was a Great War vet (15th Battalion 1914-1919), began working at power plant in 1919 when it was city owned.

a bachelor, living in the Queen’s (and later King Edward) hotels,

worked for the City of Saskatoon (rising to plant mechanic at the city pumping plant) retired in 1957,

died in 1961. (his address on a letter in one of City Clerk’s files, 1069 series; Star Phoenix 1957-12-28)

In 1938, there was a  W.J. Smith who was part of the Trades and Labour Council and is quoted in the newspaper on Oct 1, 1938 reporting on discrepancies in the counting of ballots in the recent provincial election. which may suggest that (PR League? TLC?) were looking for representation across the political spectrum – a Tory, a Liberal and a labour representative.

A newspaper article dated April 21, 1941, has W.J. as Secretary of the P.R. Committee, giving a lecture.

(Other W.J. Smith”:

-“W.J. Smith” reported about on Sept 26, 1938 (a “well-known figure in Saskatoon city police courts since his first offence in 1914”) who is not the same person.

-Walter J. Smith, of the CPR, died in 1980)

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 City of Saskatoon Archives :

The City Charter of 1906 provided for election of the Mayor and City

File No: 1007 - 87

Accession No: S89-4

File Location: 16.5.5 - Boxes 1-2

Part of: 1007

Minutes of a joint meeting of Proportional Representation League and the Council to draft system for proportional representation. -- 1938. --

ca. 4 pp of textual records.

Scope and Content: This file contains minutes of a special committee of Council.

Finding Aids: Contents of the file are mixed with other files in the series in chronological order.

Minutes begin folder 9 pp. 7, 35.

Subjects: civic electionsFile No: 1024

Accession No: S85-204

1998-002

1998-012

2015-032

Location: Main Stacks - 4.2 - FIX 19.3.5

Part of: CLE

Elections Series. -- 1909 - 1985. -- 2.08 m of textual records - FIX.

Admin History/Bio:

The City Charter of 1906 provided for election of the Mayor and City Councillors by wards, in which the city is divided into several constituencies each represented by one or more Council members.

The ward system was used from 1906-1920. Wards were abolished after the 1920 election. During the 1921-1926 and 1938-1941 elections, a system of proportional representation using a single, transferable ballot was tried in which voters ranked their choices in order of preference.

Saskatoon returned to using the ward system for the 1970-1985 elections, went back to the at-large system in 1988 and 1991, and returned to the [single-member] ward system for 1994 to the present.

(For more information on voting systems see the General Note, below)

Scope and Content:

Series consists of voters lists, and files containing concerning municipal elections and voting on bylaws as well as general files on polling subdivisions, instructions for voters, newspaper clippings and ballot papers. Voters lists for 1945-1950 do not appear in the files.

In 1920, the procedure for compiling voters lists was changed to allow new property owners added since the last assessment roll was compiled (whose names would therefore not be on the final revised list) to be added to the list.

____________________________________________

Notes:

General Note:

Under the "proporational representation" [proportional representation] system, each voter cast what was called a "single transferable vote", placing a "1" beside his first choice, a "2" beside his second choice and so on. When the ballots were counted, the first choices were counted first and the total number of ballots cast were thus ascertained.

A quota was then arrived at by dividing the total number of votes cast by the number of candidates to be elected, plus one, and adding one to the result. Thus, if 2200 votes were cast and ten aldermen were to be elected, the quota would be 2200 divided by 11, or 200, plus one, making it 201. Any candidates receiving 201 first choices would then be declared elected.

When a candidate reached the quota [and was declared elected], his excess votes were redistributed according to his supporters' second choices.

The ballot-counting process could go through several cycles before [all the seats on] council was [filled].

Most people did not fully understand this complicated voting system.

==

See also: Acc. 2000-005 - 1988 Voters List

File No: 1029-1279

File Location: 2.5.3 - Box 14

Part of: 1029

Bylaw 1279 - Proportional Representation, re adoption of. -- December 19, 1920. -- 1 file of textual records.

File No: 1029-1465

File Location: 2.5.3 - Box 16

Part of: 1029

Bylaw 1465 - Proportional Representation, to provide for rescission of. --

[Google tells me that "rescission" means "the revocation, cancellation or repeal of a law, order, or agreement."]

November 4, 1923. -- 1 folder of textual records.

File No: 1029-1672

File Location: 2.5.3 - Box 18

Part of: 1029

Bylaw 1672 - Proportional Representation, to provide for the rescission of the system of in Municipal Elections. -- December 19, 1926. --

1 folder of textual records.

File No: 1029-2113

File Location: 2.5.4 - Box 22

Part of: 1029

Bylaw 2113 - A Bylaw to provide for the adoption of a system of Proportional

Representation in Municipal Elections. -- October 26, 1930. --

1 file of textual records.

File No: 1029-2496

File Location: 2.5.4 - Box 26

Part of: 1029

Bylaw 2496 - A Bylaw to provide for submitting to the vote of the electors a Municipal

Question (Proportional Representation). -- October 12, 1936. --

1 file of textual records.

File No: 1029-2536

File Location: 2.5.4 - Box 26

Part of: 1029

Bylaw 2536 - A Bylaw to provide for the adoption of a system of Proportional

Representation in Municipal Elections. -- October 24, 1937. --

1 file of textual records.

File No: 1029-2548

File Location: 2.5.4 - Box 27

Part of: 1029

Bylaw 2548 - A Bylaw to provide for the adoption of the system of Proportional

Representation known as the single transferable vote for the election of the Mayor and Alderman -- October 10, 1938. -- 1 file of textual records.

File No: 1029-2744

File Location: 3.2.7 - Box 29

Part of: 1029

Bylaw 2744 - A Bylaw to provide for the [rescession?] of the system of Proportional Representation known as the single transferable vote for the election of the Mayor and Alderman. -- October 26, 1941. --

1 file of textual records.

File No: 1069 - 1030

Accession No: 93-002-29

File Part of: 1069

Old File No: 288

Proportional Representation. -- 1923,   1936-1947. -- 9 cm of textual records.

File consists of records relating to the use of Proportional Representation system of voting for municipal elections and includes correspondence with various proponents of the system, information brochures and newsletters, and a list of related City bylaws and dates.

Subjects: Proportional Representation League

O'Hare System [Hare system STV]

Municipal elections

File No: 1069b-1946-227

Accession No: 2009-011

File Location: Microfilm - Roll 1946 - 5

Part of: 1069b

Odometer No: 31

Old File No: 288

Proportional Representation. -- 1946.

-- 1 file of textual records : microfilm ; 16 mm.

File No: 1069b-1951-185

Accession No: 2009-011

File Location: Microfilm Cabinet -   Roll 1951 - 5

Part of: 1069b

Odometer No: 120

Old File No: 280

Proportional Representation. -- 1951. --

1 file of textual records : microfilm ; 16 mm.

File No: 1200 - 0342

Accession No: 2004 - 005

File Location: 1200 - Box 89

Part of: 1200

Old File No: 288

Voting system - Proportional representation. -- 1938, 1943. --

1 cm of textual records.

This file consists of reports, excerpts of meeting minutes and related correspondence  regarding the debate and passing of Bylaws to change the system of election of the City Council.

Provenance: Office of the City Commissioner

File No: D500 - IX - 89

Accession No: S85-204

File Location: 1.3.3

Part of: D500 - IX

Elections - Proportional Representation (288). --   1921-1922. --

2.5 cm of textual records.

File No: D500 - IX - 90

Accession No: S85-204

File Location: 1.3.3

Part of: D500 - IX

Elections - Proportional Representation (288). -- 1922. -- 3 mm of textual records.

File No: D500 - IX - 93

Accession No: S85-204

File Location: 1.3.3

Part of: D500 - IX

Elections - Proportional Representation (288). --   1923-1924. --

1 mm of textual records.

File No: D500 - IX - 104

Accession No: S85-204

File Location: 1.3.3

Part of: D500 - IX

Elections - Proportional Representation 288). --   1928-1929. --

1 mm of textual records.

File No: D500 - IX - 173

Accession No: S85-204

File Location: 1.3.4

Part of: D500 - IX

Petitions - Proportional Representation (286). -- 1923. -- 2 mm of textual records.

File No: D500 - VI - 397

Accession No: S85-204

File Location: 1.2.6

Part of: D500 - VI

Bylaws - Proportional Representation (288). -- 1920. -- 3.1 cm of textual records.

File No: D500 - VI - 398

Accession No: S85-204

File Location: 1.2.6

Part of: D500 - VI

Bylaws - Proportional Representation (288). -- 1926. -- 3 mm of textual records.

File No: D500 - X - 127

Accession No: S85-204

File Location: 1.3.4

Part of: D500 - X

Proportional Representation League (288). --   1925-1926. --

1 mm of textual records.

File No: D500 - XV - OS - 1923-8

Accession No: S85-204

Item Location: Oversize

Part of: D500 - XV

Petitions re proportional representation. -- 1923. -- 25 items.

See also: Item(s) removed from   D500 - IX - 173.

File No: D500 - XV - OS - 1925-15

Accession No: S85-204

Item Location: D500 Oversize box #5 - 18.2.6

Part of: D500 - XV

Proportional Representation Election Result Sheets, December, 1925. -- 1925. --

6 items.

See also: Item(s) removed from   D500 - IX - 95.

File No: D500 - XV - OS - 1926-5

Accession No: S85-204

Item Location: Oversize

Part of: D500 – XV

==============================

The Proportional Representation Election, 1926   - Result Sheet   - Mayor. -- 1926. -- 2 items.

See also: Item(s) removed from   D500 - IX - 98

File No: D500 - XV - OS - 1926-6

Accession No: S85-204

Item Location: Oversize

Part of: D500 - XV

The Proportional Representation Election, 1926 - Result Sheet- Public School Trustees. -- 1926. -- 1 item.

See also: Item(s) removed from   D500 - IX - 98.

File No: D500 - XV - OS - 1926-7

Accession No: S85-204

Item Location: Oversize

Part of: D500 - XV

____________________________________________

P.R. Elections - 1926.   Mayor. -- 1926. -- 1 item.

Provenance City Clerks

See also: Item(s) removed from   D500 - IX - 98.

Subjects: Proportional Representation

File No: D500 - XV - OS - 1926-12

Accession No: S85-204

Item Location: Oversize

Part of: D500 - XV

The Proportional Representation Election, [191-]   Result Sheet.. -- 1926. --

1 item.

See also: Item(s) removed from   D500 - IX - 98.

File No: D500 - XV - OS - 1926-16

Accession No: S85-204

Item Location: Oversize

Part of: D500 - XV

____________________________________________

The Proportional Representation Election 1926.   Result Sheet, Public School Trustees.. -- 1926. -- 1 item.

See also: Item(s) removed from D500 - IX – 98

[end of list -- last item has no locational clues]

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